The New 52 general discussion

[Gaucho]

Crisis = Continuity. In these times of huge TPB's sales, Graphic Novels and digital downloads I think continuity is old fashioned. How long you can keep on with a logical continuity without making a mess and need a Crisis (or Brand New Day) to fix things? 10 years, 15 at the most? I choose one hell of a story over 45 years of poor Aunt May at the verge of death. Give me All Star Superman everyday and who cares if Martha and Jonathan are still alive.

 

[E]

I choose one hell of a story over 45 years of poor Aunt May at the verge of death. Give me All Star Superman everyday and who cares if Martha and Jonathan are still alive.

I totally agree, and for Marvel, at least, it looks like they are either considering this or are even already starting to do this. They've been reprinting a lot of classic stories in TPB/premiere hardcover format the last couple years and via digital sales.

 

[E]

So does no one else think it was cool how they showed the fate of the hyper adapter from Grant Morrison's Batman in the All-Star Western #5 & 6?

 

[Zombipanda]

While the newly-relaunched DC Universe's Amazonian princess has shown herself to be one who has no hesitation to throw down in battle, her alternate-Earth counterpart may prove to be even fiercer thanks to having a very different history, according to "Earth 2" writer James Robinson.

"Due the events that open the saga of EARTH 2, Wonder Woman is already the last Amazon of this world and she is determined to avenge her sisters…at whatever cost," Robinson told DC's blog, The Source. Series editor Pat McCallum weighs in as well, hinting at Earth 2 being a rather violent place, saying, "It's one of the mysteries we'll be getting into with the series. While there will be recognizable faces and settings on EARTH 2, don't for a moment think you're on familiar ground. Do that, and you let your guard down…and then you'll end up like the rest of the Amazons."

A radical departure from the core universe, where she doesn't become the last Amazon until issue four!

Why can't the poor island of lesbians just live in peace?

Oh... right...

They get what they deserve.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

I'm kinda of glad that I was sort of right on what Pandora is.

For those that missed it, Pandora is a being like Phantom Stranger (who still exists in this realm, and hasn't changed). She changed the world because she is trying to break her curse, and Phantom Stranger is trying to stop her.

Though ineffectively.

 

[mike3717]

I'm kinda of glad that I was sort of right on what Pandora is.

For those that missed it, Pandora is a being like Phantom Stranger (who still exists in this realm, and hasn't changed). She changed the world because she is trying to break her curse, and Phantom Stranger is trying to stop her.

Though ineffectively.

That was the best part of JL #6.

I like that they just came out and said she is responsible for the new 52 universe. I didn't read Flashpoint so I don't know if that had been revealed already or not. But it was new to me.

 

[mike3717]

This sounds like it has potential to be pretty good. Esp with Lemire at the helm.

DC Comics' "National Comics" Series to Explore the New 52

This July, DC Comics resurrects "National Comics" as a new anthology-style series.

Announced today at Wired's Geek Dads blog, the new series will serve as a base to explore the publisher's New 52 universe, offering single-issue tales of characters and concepts including Eternity, Rose and Thorn, Madame X and the Outsider team-member Looker.

2011 Eisner Award-nominee for Best Writer Jeff Lemire launches the new title with his and artist Cully Hamner's take on Eternity, an updated take on Kid Eternity, with other as-yet unnamed creative teams coming on for subsequent stories.

More...

 

[E]

This sounds like it has potential to be pretty good. Esp with Lemire at the helm.

DC Comics' "National Comics" Series to Explore the New 52

This July, DC Comics resurrects "National Comics" as a new anthology-style series.

Announced today at Wired's Geek Dads blog, the new series will serve as a base to explore the publisher's New 52 universe, offering single-issue tales of characters and concepts including Eternity, Rose and Thorn, Madame X and the Outsider team-member Looker.

2011 Eisner Award-nominee for Best Writer Jeff Lemire launches the new title with his and artist Cully Hamner's take on Eternity, an updated take on Kid Eternity, with other as-yet unnamed creative teams coming on for subsequent stories.

More...

Cool. I wish DC and Marvel did more of these anthology style books. They could really improve on the quality of the writing, consolidate a lot of storylines, and reach more readers compared to publishing a larger number of crappy books.

 

[Zombipanda]

Cool. I wish DC and Marvel did more of these anthology style books. They could really improve on the quality of the writing, consolidate a lot of storylines, and reach more readers compared to publishing a larger number of crappy books.

The problem is that anthologies don't sell well because the installed readership wants those long, convoluted stories because anything short and self-contained "doesn't matter", and new readers aren't going to come into comic shops to buy the anthologies or even know they exist. And the nature of the stories makes trade compilation difficult. The direct market system is by its nature insular and uninviting to new audiences.

But I really do hope this succeeds well enough to not get cancelled. I'm a big fan of anthologies too. The comic book short story is practically a lost art.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that's a really bizarre choice for a title? "National Comics"?

 

[E]

The problem is that anthologies don't sell well because the installed readership wants those long, convoluted stories because anything short and self-contained "doesn't matter", and new readers aren't going to come into comic shops to buy the anthologies or even know they exist. And the nature of the stories makes trade compilation difficult. The direct market system is by its nature insular and uninviting to new audiences.

I think there's a tendency to give these kinds of stories to writers who either aren't very established or aren't very good. If they put top tier talent on them I think the sales issue would disappear.

Trade compilation doesn't have to be difficult. Things are only as difficult as the companies make them. If they put the effort behind them, and market them properly the trades should sell just fine. I think what happens is somehow they decide that something hasn't worked in the past so therefore it's not a good idea, so instead of considering that maybe they did a crappy job they just write it off as not viable.

Wasn't Wednesday Comics pretty successful? that was a new idea and at least the reviews and discussion on it were positive. That was basically an anthology project.

 

[E]

I didn't know until reading Superman #7 that Superman's suit is mechanical and works sort of like Iron Man's under armor used to.

Ugh. That's terrible.

 

[thee great one]

I still have not read any of the New 52.

 

[E]

I still have not read any of the New 52.

Wow. That surprises me.

 

[Ice]

I was seriously behind on Flash (only had read #1), but I caught up the other day and I love the book. Manapul as co-writer and artist is super great. By the time I finished #7 I had remembered there were no more issues out yet. Must read more!!

 

[E]

I really miss JH Williams III drawing Batwoman. The new guy just isn't very good. And worse, he looks like he's trying to emulate JHW3's page layouts and just isn't good at it. It's kind of ruining the book for me.

 

[ProjectX2]

She, not he.

 

[E]

She, not he.

I guess that explains it.

 

[thee great one]

I am seriously like months and months and months behind on my comics. I have read most of marvel to around the end of the Fear Itself stuff and I am working through DC around Flashpoint.

 

[Captain Canuck]

So I just read Flashpoint the other day, and it made me wonder what's currently going on with the "New 52" DC stuff?

What's the verdict, was it worth it? I know DC was beating the crap out of Marvel in sales at first, but has that been sustainable for them? Are any of these books better now than they once were, and if so is it because of the changes?

Also, after reading Flashpoint, I had two thoughts about the story itself:

1) Geoff Johns always does a good job, I enjoyed the story.
2) It was a rehashed House of M.

Seriously, as far as the basic concept goes, the major difference was time travel vs reality-altering magic. (Of course with that there were differences in that all the Marvel heroes were still around and most of them were just happier, but many of the DC heroes didn't exist and the world was going to crap). And as far as the changes that came afterwards, I guess it was more similar to One More Day than it was to House of M.

I guess it was different enough and well-written enough that I didn't mind, but I just thought it was interesting that I hadn't read or heard anyone else bring up the similarity.

 

[E]

I just gave up on Superman, Voodoo, and Teen Titans. Just not interesting at all.

I'm sure you guys gave up/didn't bother with them a long time ago. I gave them a chance. So lay off.

 

[Captain Canuck]

I just gave up on Superman, Voodoo, and Teen Titans. Just not interesting at all.

I'm sure you guys gave up/didn't bother with them a long time ago. I gave them a chance. So lay off.

This makes me so sad. Why can no one write Teen Titans well besides Geoff Johns? WHY!?!

 

[Friday]

I just gave up on Superman, Voodoo, and Teen Titans. Just not interesting at all.

I'm sure you guys gave up/didn't bother with them a long time ago. I gave them a chance. So lay off.

I really liked Teen Titans when it started but we haven't really progressed since issue 3. I'm really not interested in The Culling crossover.

 

[Zombipanda]

So I just read Flashpoint the other day, and it made me wonder what's currently going on with the "New 52" DC stuff?

What's the verdict, was it worth it? I know DC was beating the crap out of Marvel in sales at first, but has that been sustainable for them? Are any of these books better now than they once were, and if so is it because of the changes?

Also, after reading Flashpoint, I had two thoughts about the story itself:

1) Geoff Johns always does a good job, I enjoyed the story.
2) It was a rehashed House of M.

Seriously, as far as the basic concept goes, the major difference was time travel vs reality-altering magic. (Of course with that there were differences in that all the Marvel heroes were still around and most of them were just happier, but many of the DC heroes didn't exist and the world was going to crap). And as far as the changes that came afterwards, I guess it was more similar to One More Day than it was to House of M.

I guess it was different enough and well-written enough that I didn't mind, but I just thought it was interesting that I hadn't read or heard anyone else bring up the similarity.

Flashpoint Batman was cool, but that's really all it had going on for it.

As for sales, I'm sure they'll revert back to where they were before since the New 52 never really reached out to an audience outside the already invested fanbase. I was really impressed and excited for the idea when it was first announced, and when the books first came out, but looking at it now, it's not that fundamentally different. They stripped out a lot of their character backgrounds but honestly, they're telling pretty much the same stories they were before and the ratio of good to bad comics seems to be relatively the same. I do generally like how they've handled crossovers, but I guess we'll have to see how that keeps in the future.

 

[Zombipanda]

The last issue of Swamp Thing was sooo good.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Earth 2 was decent, it seems to be a story that Robinson likes to tell, though I think it's way to broad of a scope for him to tell effectively. Time will show though.

The World's finest was boring.

Dial H for Hero was the most interesting by far. The strange combination of heroes and there powers should prove interesting, but confining his power to a phone booth seems to be a story crutch. Let's see how it goes.

 

[Zombipanda]

Earth 2 was decent, it seems to be a story that Robinson likes to tell, though I think it's way to broad of a scope for him to tell effectively. Time will show though.

The World's finest was boring.

Dial H for Hero was the most interesting by far. The strange combination of heroes and there powers should prove interesting, but confining his power to a phone booth seems to be a story crutch. Let's see how it goes.

I was a little disappointed in Dial H but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt because I like Mievelle and as a novelist, his skill is more likely to play out in the long game.

I thought Earth 2 was a pretty great set-up and it honestly seems like exactly the level of scope Robinson is ideal to do justice. Given the reboot, it's a neat reversal of the usual Earth-1/Earth-2 dynamic.

 

[Friday]

The last issue of Swamp Thing was sooo good.

Swamp Thing is almost always good. It brings out the best in creators.

I was a little disappointed in Dial H but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt because I like Mievelle and as a novelist, his skill is more likely to play out in the long game.

Boy Chimney was the only thing in the issue that made me want to stick around and he won't be sticking around. I doubt I will.

I thought Earth 2 was a pretty great set-up and it honestly seems like exactly the level of scope Robinson is ideal to do justice. Given the reboot, it's a neat reversal of the usual Earth-1/Earth-2 dynamic.

I quite liked it. Get all the attention grabbing characters off the board so that you can work with who you want to. I can't wait till Alan Scott shows up.

 

[ProjectX2]

I thought Earth 2 was surprisingly good, Dial H was interesting enough to stick with for a while, and the New 52 FCBD thing was a mess that probably put off both new and old readers. Pandora's Box? The Question? Trinity War? What the hell is going on? I already don't care about this event and it hasn't even started.

I'll stick with the titles that don't make me question my sanity after I've read them: a.k.a. the comics that could have easily been published in the old DC Universe. I might just be an angry old man but I find it incredible that it only took a few months for this "new" universe to become as needlessly complicated as the old one. I guess that's what happens when you try to do a reboot and a revamp at the same time. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Friday]

I thought Earth 2 was surprisingly good, Dial H was interesting enough to stick with for a while, and the New 52 FCBD thing was a mess that probably put off both new and old readers. Pandora's Box? The Question? Trinity War? What the hell is going on? I already don't care about this event and it hasn't even started.

I'll stick with the titles that don't make me question my sanity after I've read them: a.k.a. the comics that could have easily been published in the old DC Universe. I might just be an angry old man but I find it incredible that it only took a few months for this "new" universe to become as needlessly complicated as the old one. I guess that's what happens when you try to do a reboot and a revamp at the same time. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You can if you have two cakes.

LIKE THE TWO EARTHS!

 

[E]

the New 52 FCBD thing was a mess that probably put off both new and old readers. Pandora's Box? The Question? Trinity War? What the hell is going on? I already don't care about this event and it hasn't even started.

Can you summarize or explain? I didn't read that issue.