Final Crisis series discussion [spoilers]

Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

What the heck is this?

Orion's dead, Darkseid killed him... though in Countdown it looked completely opposite. Is M. Night Shamalayan writing this crap?

I agree with Bass. The caveman stuff was cool. That's it.

Meanwhile, we have Libra strolling around acting like he's the biggest bad-*** in DC Universe history after having a bit-part in some DC comic a long time ago that nobody remembers. And apparently, he got his clock cleaned then. I'm just waiting for the unmasking. It'll probably be Alexander Luthor. You only THOUGHT the Joker killed him.

Okay, seriously. I just don't get any of this.
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

What the heck is this?

Orion's dead, Darkseid killed him... though in Countdown it looked completely opposite. Is M. Night Shamalayan writing this crap?

I agree with Bass. The caveman stuff was cool. That's it.

Meanwhile, we have Libra strolling around acting like he's the biggest bad-*** in DC Universe history after having a bit-part in some DC comic a long time ago that nobody remembers. And apparently, he got his clock cleaned then. I'm just waiting for the unmasking. It'll probably be Alexander Luthor. You only THOUGHT the Joker killed him.

Okay, seriously. I just don't get any of this.

I LOVE this man!
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

What the heck is this?

Final Crisis?

Willverine said:
Orion's dead, Darkseid killed him... though in Countdown it looked completely opposite. Is M. Night Shamalayan writing this crap?

Nuh-uh. But I wouldn't be surprised if Dan Brown wrote Countdown.

Willverine said:
I agree with Bass. The caveman stuff was cool. That's it.

You mean, the part that was cribbed from 2001?

Willverine said:
Meanwhile, we have Libra strolling around acting like he's the biggest bad-*** in DC Universe history after having a bit-part in some DC comic a long time ago that nobody remembers. And apparently, he got his clock cleaned then.

I don't know. Does it matter what role he played in an obscure one-shot appearance years and years ago? Can't we let the character stand on his own, and I don't know, let the story explain to us why he should be menacing?

Willverine said:
I'm just waiting for the unmasking. It'll probably be Alexander Luthor. You only THOUGHT the Joker killed him.

Oh, speculation!

Willverine said:
Okay, seriously. I just don't get any of this.

I don't understand what there is to get. Explain?

Bass said:
He had me at this whole "I look like Randy from MY NAME IS EARL" avatar.

Agreed. He does have the greatest avatar in the history of avatars.
 
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Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

Final Crisis?

Really!?! You know what, Zombi... I can read. I read the cover and it only took me a half hour! It said FI-I-I-I-I-N-A-A-A-A-A-L C-R-I-I-I-I-I-S-I-I-I-S-S-S. No, really man, I can read the damn cover. It was a hypothetical question... a trick question... a question that didn't require a literal answer. Yeah it's Final Crisis... but what I was saying was... What the hell is this crap that I'm reading and why do I already regret buying it?



Nuh-uh. But I wouldn't be surprised if Dan Brown wrote Countdown.

Seriously, Da Vinci Code wasn't a bad book despite being a horrible movie. Angels & Demons wasn't bad either... but I understand your reference. All I'm saying is I smell some big twists coming our way and the revelation that Orion got the crap end of the stick seems to be the first, because it looked to me (in that big World War Hulk ripoff battle) that he beat Darkseid's wrinkled purple arse from here to beyond the source wall.


You mean, the part that was cribbed from 2001?

Was it? I don't know. I didn't start reading comics again until 2002 and I wasn't chomping at the bit to "catch up with DC" because I didn't feel the need. Maybe it was cribbed, but in my opinion (and that of Bass, apparently) this was the best part of the comic book. Are we alone? Maybe. Probably not. Cavemen are cool, despite the failure of the Geico-inspired Cavemen sitcom.



I don't know. Does it matter what role he played in an obscure one-shot appearance years and years ago? Can't we let the character stand on his own, and I don't know, let the story explain to us why he should be menacing?

Yes. To me, it matters. Why should I care about this obscure trivia question of a character? There has been no buildup to the long-awaited (*heh*) return of Libra unless of course, that buildup had to do with a completely separate character who has been used in DC comics over the last 25 years. Such as Alexander Luthor. Such as Ozymanidas. Such as Mr. Mind (even though that would suck because Mr. Mind sucks). Such as Monarch. Such as... I don't know. My point is, if Libra was such a force to be reckoned with, why hasn't he been referenced in a DC comic since 1974-ish? Accuse me of expecting the predictable, but you expect someone with the last name "Luthor", "Seid" or "Ker" to be a menace in the world of DC comics. Not some spare from the mid-70's who became a footnote before he ever had the chance to be a header. At the end of the day, who cares? Maybe Morrison sees this as a chance to make a character he remembered from his childhood "cool" with readers just because Grant maybe thought he had a snappy costume. If that's the case, big deal. Odds are if that's the story on Libra, he'll be retconned out of memory within 5 years.

Oh, speculation!

Yes, it's pure speculation that Libra will turn out to be Alexander Luthor. But I'd imagine I would get even odds from a comic-savvy Vegas bookie on Libra turning out to be a character other than the same Libra from the mid-70's. See above. What would really be the point of bringing in said obscure mid-70's character just to have him get wiped out by the end of the series? Maybe he was a pawn of the suddenly-alive again Darkseid after his ghost teamed up with the Ghost of Christmas Past to assassinate Orion. Then we get a plot hole to correct another plot hole. OH JOY.



I don't understand what there is to get. Explain?

What is to get is what the hell are they trying to do here? The beginning of Final Crisis contradicts the ending of "Countdown to Final Crisis". Orion takes the big dirt nap while Darkseid comes back to life dressed in a suit impersonating a mob boss. What? I thought Orion made his stand against dear old dad and won, finally. Or else what was that World War Hulk Sentry vs. Hulk ripoff in the last 2 issues of Countdown? That was for naught? Give me a break. I would like to see some consistency, please.



Agreed. He does have the greatest avatar in the history of avatars.

Agreed. It's 100% natural, baby. That's all me.
 
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Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

These gods die and are reborn. I think it's safe to assume that this new version of Darkseid, Boss Dark Side, killed Orion for having killed his Fourth World self. We are now on the Fifth World, and it's location is Earth. Boss Dark Side isn't just Darkseid in a silly costume, just like all of these characters aren't hiding out in human clothing, these are the reborn versions of those evil beings into the Fifth World. They are still gods and immensely powerful, but they are still climbing back up.

It's not contradictory, so everyone needs to just chill out and remember what Morrison said in the interviews, as well as the fact that this is JUST THE FIRST ISSUE. Things WILL be explained.

God, someone starts off a series with an issue that doesn't directly answer every question and everyone get's grumpy. Rediculous.
 
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Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

I may know very little about the DCU, but I found the issue to be enjoyable. I have heard/seen Orion and Granny before, so I know who they are (well, at least what they look like).

And the art was great. So clean and all.
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

These gods die and are reborn. I think it's safe to assume that this new version of Darkseid, Boss Dark Side, killed Orion for having killed his Fourth World self. We are now on the Fifth World, and it's location is Earth. Boss Dark Side isn't just Darkseid in a silly costume, just like all of these characters aren't hiding out in human clothing, these are the reborn versions of those evil beings into the Fifth World. They are still gods and immensely powerful, but they are still climbing back up.

It's not contradictory, so everyone needs to just chill out and remember what Morrison said in the interviews, as well as the fact that this is JUST THE FIRST ISSUE. Things WILL be explained.

God, someone starts off a series with an issue that doesn't directly answer every question and everyone get's grumpy. Rediculous.

That's what I've been saying!

I may know very little about the DCU, but I found the issue to be enjoyable. I have heard/seen Orion and Granny before, so I know who they are (well, at least what they look like).

And the art was great. So clean and all.

THANK YOU!
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

I was just restating it for Willverine, who apparently had not picked up on it.
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

I was reading Morrsion interview earlier and the reason he picked Libra is because in that one obscure arc, he robbed half of everyone's power in the justice league. He has half batman intelligence, half Superman strength etc. He's a really powerful character and he couldn't handle the power. Same thing happened with that Captain Marvel mini. This guy was so strong but almost went insane from the power boost and his body split into a bunch of different bodies across the universe or something. I can't remember how grant explained it, but there's your reason in a nutshell. We're supposed to be seeing 10 of the most powerful characters attacking New Earth at once right? So Darkseid and Libra are two. Are there any others? Any guesses?
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

I'll respond more eloquently when my overwhelming Dan Brown rage subsides to righteous anger. But seriously, he may well be the worst published writer of the last twenty years. Slash fan-fiction is better than anything he's ever published.

I liked the caveman part lots (and btw, was that Vandal Savage with the wicked cool skull-belt?). I agree that it may well be the best part of the ish, but it was totally cribbed off of 2001's opening sequence.
 
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Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

Grant Morrison Interview

He explains how DC Editorial ****ed up the ending of Countdown, how the guy who wakes up at the end is the exiled Monitor, and what Anthro was drawing int he sand at the end.

Overall, it seems he's pissed off people are *****ing about continuity and not discussing the story.
 
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Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

so it seems like Barry is coming back. I wonder what his purpose will be and if it was him in that rod during the Lightning Saga.
 
Re: Final Crisis (SPOILERS!)

Stupid Countdown. Glad I didn't read it.
 

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